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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 03:01:52 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 11 #32 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 1800 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mastery (Steve Carlo) 2. Magellan (Van Harn, Steve) 3. Last cult post (Steven Lefebvre) 4. Kalis Ilustrisimo Seminar in NH (Steven Lefebvre) 5. Re: Magellan (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Mastery (Ray Terry) 7. Of Cults & Crackheads (Buz Grover) 8. From Joyner's book (Ray Terry) 9. Happy New Year (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Steve Carlo" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Mastery Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 09:21:25 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Terry, I sought the knowledge of the martial arts master to be better able to defend myself and my familly ;) But in all this conversation we have implied that "master" is superlative. A PhD is generally considered the highest academic qualification in the world...but how many of you knew there was also a D.Lett and D.Sci which is *higher* than a PhD (at least in the sciences you need at least 50 papers published and then submit yourself to oral examination by your peers)? The same is true in many of the arts I have studied there is the Sensei/Guro etc., then there are Vice Masters, Principal Masters, Grand Masters, Most Excellent Masters etc., We could go on, but who is to say that Enoeda Sensei was not a true master because at time X+1 he was better than he was at time X. So therefore he couldn't have been a master at any point until he passed away! I'll propose a working definition of a master: Someone who has the respect of their peers, is considered to be an expert in their chosen art by their peers and continually strives to improve both themself and their art (be this in teaching method or art style/content). _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: "Eskrima Digest (E-mail)" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:38:11 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Magellan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To those who are interested in books containing any relevant history of the PI, I just finished the new book, "Over the Edge of the World" by Laurence Bergreen .This book covers the entire voyage around the world by Magellan's expedition (40,000miles total). Primarily based on Pigafetta's log, the book goes into great detail regarding every facet of the Armada De Molucca but also uses details from the accounts of other survivors. Planning, financing, provisions, shipboard life, encounters with natives and provides insight into Magellan as an explorer and a man. Quite a bit of time is spent covering the events leading up to Magellan's death on Mactan and the author's opinions of why. I've read summary accounts before but this one shed the most light on the subject. Beyond this specific detail, as a whole it's a fantastic book as well. I listened on tape and was fascinated. Steve Van Harn Arnis Sikaran - Jornales System Sandatahan --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:11:20 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Last cult post Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello again, Rocky, you are right on the money with your post! Marc, you and I will probably not see “eye to eye” on commercial vs professional schools (I do see your point though). Commercial by definition is “having profit as a primary aim”, and to run a successful martial arts business, it must be professional. Otherwise the competition down the street will be picking up the students leaving the backdoor of your school. Over the last 30 years, and especially in the last 10 to 15 years, martial arts business are setting new standards of operation, teaching methodologies, advertisements, .......etc. Those who do set and follow professional standards grow and thrive, others just creep along. Organizations such as NAPMA, MAIA, EFC, all are helping school owners realize this everyday. (This is where I am coming from) I believe the fantasy of being an ultimate fighter in any art, comes from a sense of immaturity that accompanies many new students in the martial arts. It is only after years of practice and exposure to many arts, and people (and many beat downs!) do most students open their eyes and realize that there is not a “secret art or technique” that will make them invincible! Especially as a person ages, the maturity level rises and we no longer seek out the opportunity to have to prove my “Ego” in a bar fight (just an example). We still can challenge ourselves through other means or methods within our training, and hopefully not end up dead because I picked on the wrong guy in the bar................ Great debating with you! Let's get back to discussing the FMA'S! Train Hard it is the Way! Steve L. www.Bujinkandojo.net _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Steven Lefebvre" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:12:58 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Kalis Ilustrisimo Seminar in NH Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, Here are the details on the upcoming Kalis Ilustrisimo event at our school. All the best Guro Steve L. Kalis Ilustrisimo Seminar Featured Instructor: Raymond Floro Raymond Floro will be teaching the principles and fighting tactics of Kalis Ilustrisimo, FFS at the Bujinkan Dojo, Manchester NH. on March 13th and 14th, 2004. Location: Bujinkan Dojo 250 Commercial st, Suite 2008 Manchester, NH, 03101 Time/Date: March 13th and 14th , from 12:00 – 4:00pm (there will be a short lunch break) Cost: $80.0/day or $150 for both days prepaid on or before March 1st. $90.0/day at the door (cash only) For more information please contact Steven Lefebvre at Airyu@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:54:01 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > To those who are interested in books containing any relevant history of the > PI, I just finished the new book, "Over the Edge of the World" by Laurence > Bergreen .This book covers the entire voyage around the world by Magellan's > expedition (40,000miles total). Primarily based on Pigafetta's log, the book > goes into great detail regarding every facet of the Armada De Molucca but > also uses details from the accounts of other survivors. Planning, financing, > provisions, shipboard life, encounters with natives and provides insight > into Magellan as an explorer and a man. Quite a bit of time is spent > covering the events leading up to Magellan's death on Mactan and the > author's opinions of why. I've read summary accounts before but this one > shed the most light on the subject. Beyond this specific detail, as a whole > it's a fantastic book as well. I listened on tape and was fascinated. Tim Joyner's Magellan is also amazing. It includes a great account and analysis of Magellan's encounter with LapuLapu's tribe. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Mastery To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:58:30 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I'll propose a working definition of a master: Someone who has the respect > of their peers, is considered to be an expert in their chosen art by their > peers and continually strives to improve both themself and their art (be > this in teaching method or art style/content). That seems to fit well with Webster, and the way the term is typically(?) used in the martial arts. Now Grandmaster, GreatGrandmaster, SupremeGrandmaster etc are more problematic... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:07:55 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Of Cults & Crackheads Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've been tracking the cult thread with interest. It's a subject I've had cause to mull over; tangled with adherents of a cult I won't mention lest Ray get bombarded with flames while the Galactic Overlord smites us all. Whatever the case, and as several have pointed out, defining just what a cult is can be pretty problematic: one man's cult is another man's revealed truth. As has also been pointed out, many accepted religions fit some definitions of the term, while someone else intimated that institutions in power tend to label institutions seeking power cults. The net result is a fairly nebulous meaning of the term. Rather than try to sort through all the overlap to find criteria common to cults and cults only, I prefer to look at the way an individual participates in an organization or activity. This method is derived from a lecture an ex-junkie gave me back in my telephone hotline days. He claimed that, though it's addictive elements are certainly a factor, the thing that truly kept junkies coming back for heroin and other drugs is how simple they make life. There is only one concern when you wake up, only one worry when you go to bed, every waking moment is informed by a single need. The complexities of existence are rendered down to a simple, singular need. I think cult members seek to sate a similar singular need. With organizations popularly considered to be cults the method is pretty straightforward: there is a process of assimilation and socialization that conveys the cult's singular view to to new member. Other instances, however, are not so cut and dried. Most mainstream Christian religions, for instance, have their members who drink the wine, chew the wafer, and then go about their business. There are some, however, who allow all aspects of their existence to be narrowly defined by the same religious tenets. Though both types may sit in the same pew, there is no mistaking one for the other. In a similar vein, I use to know a woman whose whole life orbited around her soap opera. She would spend hours on the phone nattering endlessly about what that nasty Erica had done last episode. I think this lady was a charter member of an All My Children cult. Conversely, there are some prominent members of the Galactic Overlord cult alluded to above who quite obviously don't spend every waking moment catering to the cult's simpleminded gibberish, though that doesn't keep the cult's drones from standing on street corners shilling passers by. A similar range exists in a martial arts context. The "bad" martial arts school in the Karate Kid perhaps typifies a top down sort of cult: everything is reduced to the need to win at all costs. However, there are instructors out there with no desire to lead a cult who none the less have a cult following. Anyone besides me ever been at a seminar where some adoring, usually untalented, sycophant shows up, flails around at the front of the room, and pesters the instructor at every opportunity? I suspect that's an instance of a cult member in need of a cult. I guess the bottom line for me is that there is no cut and dried definition for the term. I think there is a human penchant for favoring simple fictions over complex truths that plenty of people are willing to exploit. Some are hucksters, others true believers, many are madmen, while others are lost souls looking for something to latch on to. I don't think there will every be a definition of the word "cult" that will satisfy everyone; I think it's pretty easy, however, to identify people who latch on to something singular they then make the locus of their lives. BTW, I've come to conclude that the telephone hotline I'm always rattling on about was something of a cult. All of us lame idealists working the phones thought if we were sweet enough for long enough all the world's problems could be solved. Fortunately there are a lot of wretched people out their who were more than willing to disabuse us of our simple, syrupy notions. In a lot of ways I think the experience inoculated me against future folly. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:48:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] From Joyner's book Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FWIW, back in issues v10.n023 thru v10.n026 we recounted the chapter of Joyner's Magellan book on the encounter with LapuLapu's warriors. See Magellan's Fatal Alliance. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:27:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Happy New Year Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Happy (Lunar) New Year. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues available @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest